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Author Topic: Re: PD1.5 as per weekly update Oct 25th  (Read 6598 times)
el
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« on: October 25, 2010, 09:03:13 am »
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I would LOVE LOVE LOVE if we could migrate our PD1 dragons over to PD1.5

It would really help with the feelings I have of being overwhelmed due to time constraints.  I would have Solstice of Summer there in a flash. 

And the internal friend system would be nice too.

My brain doesn't truly grasp the math stuff about visibility and cave defence, but I am willing to learn.
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Tesserex
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« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2010, 09:35:33 am »
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Sorry I suck at explaining, here's a shorter version:

As you spend time in your cave, your chances of being seen on the attack page gradually decrease down to zero. Additionally, your combat power gradually increases, to a max of double your base power. You will see these numbers updating live on your home page.
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Craig Schwartz - Pet Dragons developer / coder
vetlet
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« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2010, 01:09:02 pm »
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So... shortly after you come out to collect (if caving) would be when you are most seen, and yet weakest?
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'My heart has joined the Thousand, for my friend stopped running today'. Richard Adams.

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Tesserex
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« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2010, 01:47:09 pm »
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Yes. But if you're attacked, by the time the attack arrives you'll have been back in your cave for quite a while.
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vetlet
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« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2010, 03:17:07 pm »
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OK. When you say being 'seen on the attack page' does this mean that direct links to attack as current will not work?
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'My heart has joined the Thousand, for my friend stopped running today'. Richard Adams.

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Hippolyta
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« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2010, 04:59:41 pm »
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Ouch, interesting point vetlet. I usually have my targets bookmarked days in advance of attacking...maybe that's why there is the combat power increase to go along with the visibility.
So, they will have 8-13ish hours to prep for you, assuming they're always caving, and even if they aren't online at all, their combat power will be increasing so if they log in with an hour to go before the attack lands, they can just wait an hour before they uncave to take turns, rather than weakening themselves. There's no way to beat the cavers' game really, even if you win the attack, cause the caver will always have a good few hours of cave time before your attack lands. Maybe I'll actually use a tasty hasty potion in the revamp! haha
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Tesserex
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« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2010, 05:17:20 pm »
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Realize that this doesn't mean it goes from you having the huge advantage to them having the huge advantage, If you would have been 3 times stronger, with a guaranteed win, the worst case for you is that you will only be 50% stronger. Still the advantage to you. And that's after almost a full day inside. After 12 hours, it's only a 60% boost.

And yes, if you can't see that dragon on that day, direct links won't work. But that's exactly the same as if they had grown out of your range, or hit the 5 incomings limit. You just deal with it and try again later.
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Craig Schwartz - Pet Dragons developer / coder
vetlet
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« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2010, 05:39:54 pm »
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Then it means that if you were on equalish stats at the outset, then you would be disadvantaged if you catch them later on in the caving cycle.

Not critiquing, just getting it clear in my head.
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'My heart has joined the Thousand, for my friend stopped running today'. Richard Adams.

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Tesserex
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« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2010, 06:55:29 pm »
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Yes. But note that most people will choose targets weaker than them anyway, so this is a balance. There's also opportunities for strategy here. Try attacking such that it will land just after rollover. If the player hasn't taken turns for the day, he will have to leave the cave to take turns as soon as he sees the incoming, to get more cave time before it hits, or lose the turns.
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Craig Schwartz - Pet Dragons developer / coder
Snuzzle
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« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2010, 07:13:27 pm »
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Yes. But note that most people will choose targets weaker than them anyway, so this is a balance.

Is it, though?  Some people would attack noticeably smaller dragons -- but such a change would make players willing to attack "slighter smaller" and "about your size" even less likely to do so.  Anything that makes things easier for defender makes things more difficult for the raider -- and, in order to compensate, they'll to press into areas of advantage that they never bothered to try before.  It's a legitimate possibility that in certain instances that this change will increase "bottomfeeding."

Like the stealth idea. . . . much less crazy about the caving power idea, but hey, so it goes.  It's very defender-centric, but if people are okay with that, I won't complain either.  Pd1 doesn't seem to have the problems with raiders who think they have no shot at winning, so it could work, even with the problem noted above.
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Lady__Dragon
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« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2010, 07:34:16 pm »
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I think it would balance ok for the most part, in that the majority in PD1 don't cave much / at all. Plus it adds to the retaliation strategy. Many (especially in the colossal, uncapped ranges) retaliate now 24 - 48 hours later on the theory that if they were raging, you'll get them in anti rage, and if they weren't then it's no different if I go now or later. Even in capped play, retaliation attacks are very common.

This would make you think - do I attack asap to limit their caving time, do I cave now for my defense, and attack them later and risk them caving to gain strength vs me, or being hidden when I want to find them?

Generally, I think I like the sound of it.
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Kat, Aeron, and Elvy
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« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2010, 07:54:02 pm »
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*question regarding the increasing defense stat*

I cave for 12 hours and receive the full benefit of my caving so that my defense stat is at +50% of normal. I exit my cave to take turns before an incoming/rollover/whathaveyou...Does my increased defense stat drop back to the base level instantaneously, or does it drop incrementally?

I just want to be sure I read the answer to vetlet's question right.

I believe that if the option for migration were available I would jump on that bandwagon.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2010, 08:18:56 pm by Kat, Aeron, and Elvy » Logged
Tesserex
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« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2010, 08:14:41 pm »
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Snuzzle - The defense is also a balance to the visibility. By having a visibility stat we are removing the instant protection that the cave currently provides. To make it less of a caver-bashing change, we added the defense stat. And while yes, in some cases bottom feeding will make more sense, I think that most attractive targets, especially for the biggest raiders, are other raiders who won't be in their cave much. It's the tiny, never-train-fighting dragons that will benefit the most.

Kat - Currently, leaving your cave would reset it to 0 immediately, but we were considering that idea, where it goes down to 0 gradually. But the problem is that caving would become similar to PD1 - if you are only outside for 10 seconds, your stat would be unaffected (unless "incrementally" means 10% per second) and then you would just cave again, and stay at max defense all the time.
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Craig Schwartz - Pet Dragons developer / coder
Kat, Aeron, and Elvy
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« Reply #13 on: October 25, 2010, 08:20:05 pm »
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Thank you, Tess.
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Airy
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« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2010, 12:33:44 am »
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I appreciate the dev's looking for a solution to this, however...

Right now, the "stay in cave" button is like a PvP toggle button, outside of the cave you can be attacked, inside not.  I can't speak for everyone, but I suspect a number of players stay out of the cave to stay in "the action"

By changing the feature so that caving boosts power, it will be seen as a valid defense strategy button as well and will give players a lot more incentive to use it.

I have a rich dragon and am fairly active.  My dragon remains outside the cave at all times.  Right now my dragon does some assisting and occasional attacks.

If staying inside the cave boosts power, then there would be a lot more incentive for me to put my dragon in the cave when I am notified of an attack, rather than doing any other action.

I think this would change the dynamics of the game by encouraging more caving from players who don't do so now.
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