LiquidFyre Games Forums
August 16, 2017, 03:43:12 pm *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: Welcome to our new Forums! Please take some time to read the few posts in "The Official Word" category.
 
   Home   Help Arcade Search Login Register GO TO PET DRAGONS GO TO PET DRAGONS 2  
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 6
  Print  
Author Topic: Caving  (Read 10301 times)
Keppoch
Wyrm Trainer
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 138


View Profile
« on: July 27, 2008, 07:15:35 pm »
0


I'm voicing a concern I see with how the game is increasingly making caving overly advantageous to all strategies of gameplay.  I don't dislike cavers but I don't want the caving strategy to be overly promoted over all other forms of gameplay either.  Personally, I've never caved my dragon, but I'm really seeing a time when I might start since there's NO reason not to other than my own stubborn conviction that I don't see that as a playstyle that the developers intended to promote.  I believe they wanted the majority of players to be fighting each other. 

There simply isn't any disadvantage to caving, and therefore people are doing it to avoid gold horde decrease on every leader board, not just the wealth board.  There really isn't a problem with the cavers who always have caved - they have their own leader board and it's fun for them to battle on it.  However, those that have climbed the AA board and stop fighting to consistently cave have no disadvantage over those of us who stay out to fight.  The AA cavers' hordes are at very low risk of decreasing, their gear doesn't wear out and their battle record also won't fluctuate.  Meanwhile there's no advantage to staying out and fighting.  If you're high on the AA board at all, you'll be attacked many times per day on average, and of those battles you'll likely lose at few, even with friends.  So why stay out?  Why not just head into your cave with a tidy battle record that'll be hard to match and a nice stack of gold, thereby decreasing the available pool of those actively fighting? 

Here are some things I've found from recent experience (after 301 days of gameplay).  I have a very lengthy list of cavers and a short list of available targets that don't cave.  It's hard for me to find targets to attack who:

1.  aren't caved
2.  I haven't already attacked within 10 days (I don't repeat often although the ABC would let me - here I would say the game encourages repeatedly attacking the same target since there aren't many prime targets to seek that aren't already caved).
3.  I know don't have a league of friends who will attack repeatedly if I attack just one of them once
4.  have enough to gold to bother going after

There should be an incentive to stay out and fight versus caving your dragon for extended periods of time.  Right now there isn't one.    I like having a fighting dragon, but as more dragons cave there aren't many reasons to continue to put the effort to find the rare target that fits the above criteria.

I know there have been discussions about caving on the boards but those revolve around those who have caved for a long time.  This isn't that issue, but obviously any stick for cavers will hit all cavers.  However I hate seeing posts that complain and don't offer solutions. 

So....here are some suggestions.  There is the carrot and the stick, and of course these are just suggestions:

1.  Caving tax?  Caving right now is too fast and easy to do, and costs nothing, while fighting costs money for gear, repairs and leaves you open to attack.  So, perhaps consider making caving cost some random % of your horde each time you hit the caving button or as a % of the day that you are caved.  This way the people on the wealth board will fluctuate in their horde size and also those fighters who consistently cave will need to weigh the advantage of collecting and caving versus finding a good target to fight. 
2.  Random encounters?  Have those who are out able to have random gold treasures found when a dragon is out of their cave.  Or random repairs on their gear, or some sort of reward for staying out. 

I'm sure there are plenty of suggestions in other posts, so first people have to buy into the fact that there's an actual need to change and then they'd need to want to fix it.  But at least I've voiced my concerns.

Logged
Av
Draconic Legend
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1275


An unpleasant fellow.


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2008, 09:05:33 pm »
0

Keppoch,

Let me first warn you that you are opening a can of worms that has been attacked, and explored, eaten, regurgitated, and attacked again. 

Because of the number of times this discussion has been had, many of the forum members, including those who were initially on your side, have come to terms with the fact that caving is probably not going to change on PD1.  The devs had acknowledged that caving is currently being used for a purpose it was not intended while further adding that things are not likely to change.

That being said, PD2 may offer solutions where PD1 has none.  Then again it may not, things are up in the air, the devs have not told us anything.

So, I will reread your post, and give it some thought, but having had this conversation before, I may stay out.

If there are those who wish to explore this again, or for the first time if you are new or did not engage the last time, please recognize that this is a sensitive subject and that it has caused a lot of emotion and a general negative feeling took hold of the forum the last time we had it.  Please tread lightly and sensitively, more than just caving is at stake.
Logged

"When he arrived at the gate I couldn't put my finger on it why, but I just didn't like him. His glare, his smirk, his posture; everything about him bothered me."

- Conrad Anders, City Guard


Av
Draconic Legend
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1275


An unpleasant fellow.


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2008, 09:39:02 pm »
0

There should be an incentive to stay out and fight versus caving your dragon for extended periods of time.  Right now there isn't one.    I like having a fighting dragon, but as more dragons cave there aren't many reasons to continue to put the effort to find the rare target that fits the above criteria.

This is one of the best approaches to talking cavers/caving.  Rewards for being out, rather than penalties for being in.

1.  Caving tax?  Caving right now is too fast and easy to do, and costs nothing, while fighting costs money for gear, repairs and leaves you open to attack.  So, perhaps consider making caving cost some random % of your horde each time you hit the caving button or as a % of the day that you are caved.  This way the people on the wealth board will fluctuate in their horde size and also those fighters who consistently cave will need to weigh the advantage of collecting and caving versus finding a good target to fight. 
2.  Random encounters?  Have those who are out able to have random gold treasures found when a dragon is out of their cave.  Or random repairs on their gear, or some sort of reward for staying out. 

The tax (#1) is a penalty and will likely by attack by everyone and their mother as it directly penalizes cavers.  #2 is a step in the right direction IMO.
Logged

"When he arrived at the gate I couldn't put my finger on it why, but I just didn't like him. His glare, his smirk, his posture; everything about him bothered me."

- Conrad Anders, City Guard


Keppoch
Wyrm Trainer
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 138


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2008, 09:40:01 pm »
0

Oh, I'm fully aware that there's a can of worms, but what remains is an ongoing problem that should be considered.  Keeping the status quo is also going to have effect on the game - it's already skewing the playstyle, which is what I wanted people to be aware of.  This is why I wanted to explain the cause and effect of easy caving and why I think this result isn't the best thing for the game.  Whether or not people actually act on it is related to the importance the developers want put on solving it, if they even think it's a problem to solve.  

I've read other posts, but they focus on those dragons who have used caving as their main strategy in gameplay for most of their lives, NOT those who have been pushed to it due to ever increasing difficulties in staying out.  The point I'm trying to bring up is that regardless of your playstyle, if you want to stay on the leaderboards (except for the Largest board since weight can't be taken away), caving is too tempting of an option for players and therefore it'll be used over alternatives.  And that's sad.

And I agree with the carrot solution versus the stick solution - it's always better to give people a positive reinforcement to promote something versus a negative one to deter another.

« Last Edit: July 27, 2008, 09:43:34 pm by Keppoch » Logged
Av
Draconic Legend
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1275


An unpleasant fellow.


View Profile
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2008, 09:48:37 pm »
0

Whether or not people actually act on it is related to the importance the developers want put on solving it, if they even think it's a problem to solve. 

Just so you know, the devs themselves have said multiple times that they are not likely going to solve it.  I don't really feel like finding the quotes, but its been said.
Logged

"When he arrived at the gate I couldn't put my finger on it why, but I just didn't like him. His glare, his smirk, his posture; everything about him bothered me."

- Conrad Anders, City Guard


Keppoch
Wyrm Trainer
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 138


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2008, 09:55:57 pm »
0

Go ahead and flame Bella, I don't intend to be bullied from posting problems in a civil manner when I believe there is something happening that people might not be aware of. 

And I know that Ravenex has felt pressured to cave himself, which is one of the reasons I wanted to make this post in the first place.  He's not alone in feeling that pressure, and I believe it's a bad thing for people to feel they have to alter their playstyle to a more passive activity instead of being rewarded for courageously staying out of their caves and fighting all comers.

I've lost over 3 million gold in the past 3 days.  Not complaining, but I'm certainly seeing the lure of hiding my dragon in her cave and not bothering fighting anymore.  And I know there are many on the AA leaderboard who have already done that.
Logged
Keppoch
Wyrm Trainer
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 138


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2008, 10:00:49 pm »
0

I take the bouncing guy on fire as a threat that would occur if I continue posting, and as I said I'm not going to be deterred if people are angry that I'm bringing up a point that hasn't been discussed.  Caving has, but not in this context.

It's interesting that people are bothered about talking about something, even though they themselves don't like to get attacked in game.  Can we talk about the actual point I made instead of derailing the discussion by saying that caving is a touchy subject?
« Last Edit: July 27, 2008, 10:02:20 pm by Keppoch » Logged
Av
Draconic Legend
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1275


An unpleasant fellow.


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2008, 10:06:33 pm »
0

Can we talk about the actual point I made instead of derailing the discussion by saying that caving is a touchy subject?

Sorry, I did go a bit overboard, I just want people to treat this subject with sensitivity it deserves.

Discuss away, just be nice  silver smile.
Logged

"When he arrived at the gate I couldn't put my finger on it why, but I just didn't like him. His glare, his smirk, his posture; everything about him bothered me."

- Conrad Anders, City Guard


Boom
Wyrm Trainer
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 130


I have a dream and in it something eats you.......


View Profile
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2008, 10:07:05 pm »
0

I will make this brief. Every person enjoys a certain style of gameplay on pd.  I personally enjoy fighting and brawling...I love to win a lot of gold, although I may not keep a lot around afterwards. When I log on everyday to pd, it tickles me to see my battle rate and I can't wait for a new fight.  Thats my strategy and thats whats fun for me. I'm sure cavers love to jump out and get gold then jump back in their caves. If they do this with no incomings, then for them, they have won for the day and that is fun for them.  I think its wrong to change gameplay so everyone can have a chance at their gold. I personally would be upset if someone told me I needed to quit fighting so someone could catch up to my battle rate. It's just not true that you can't move up on the leaderboards unless you cave.

Logged

 
"WARNING: Children left unattended will be sold to the circus."
BlackenedRoseThorn
Guest
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2008, 10:09:59 pm »
0

*resists says a word...*
Logged
shefly
Wyrm Trainer
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 164



View Profile
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2008, 10:16:05 pm »
0

I don't think the point of this thread is intended to make people who like to go out for a few seconds and collect feel their gameplay is not valid.  It is however intended to discuss possibilites for those who want to do well in the AA boards, and still be able to play using their current strategies.  The point is that perhaps some of the top dragons on the AA would like to stay there, but not feel they are being forced to cave as a way of keeping their rankings. 
Logged

brace yourself for immediate disintegration
Keppoch
Wyrm Trainer
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 138


View Profile
« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2008, 10:21:40 pm »
0



I don't think the point of this thread is intended to make people who like to go out for a few seconds and collect feel their gameplay is not valid.  It is however intended to discuss possibilites for those who want to do well in the AA boards, and still be able to play using their current strategies.  The point is that perhaps some of the top dragons on the AA would like to stay there, but not feel they are being forced to cave as a way of keeping their rankings. 

Thank you!  Exactly!!!   gold grin

It's just not true that you can't move up on the leaderboards unless you cave.

No, but once you're up there, there's no incentive to stay out of your cave.  

Here's the scenario:  you finally get into the top 20 on the AA leaderboard or you're in the top 20 of your weightclass.  Those players who are looking for a leaderboard fight pick you since you're not in your cave and many of the leaderboard is. You start getting the attention of 4+ attacks per day, many of them raging.  You repeatedly get gold pulled off you, so you keep fighting and trying to get some of that gold back.  But you can't make it as fast as they can pull it off you.  

So ...what do you do?  Your strategy might be to stay out and fight, which is what I do.  But meanwhile there are cavers on the top 20 who keep their positions since they've got the cash preserved and their averages are preserved whereas yours is always vulnerable.  Plus decreasingly you find there aren't many good targets to attack anyhow since many are going to caving.  So you have no one to fight and people attack you.... resulting in the push to cave yourself.
Logged
Boom
Wyrm Trainer
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 130


I have a dream and in it something eats you.......


View Profile
« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2008, 10:31:11 pm »
0

If you feel like you should cave yourself Keppoch, then do so...there is no reason to change the gameplay of pd from what you have said. There are numerous ways to stay at the top of AA
Logged

 
"WARNING: Children left unattended will be sold to the circus."
Keppoch
Wyrm Trainer
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 138


View Profile
« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2008, 10:35:52 pm »
0

This really isn't about what I'm going to do.  I've never caved my dragon.  But I also want to ensure there will be others who I can compete with as well. 
Logged
Keppoch
Wyrm Trainer
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 138


View Profile
« Reply #14 on: July 27, 2008, 11:26:21 pm »
0


Do not be rude to me, and I will not feel the need to be rude to you.

Do not attempt to dictate my playing style as I do not attempt to dictate how you play.  I did not say anything rude to you.  I put a silly emoticon up.

That is all, I do not appreciate your attacks.

What?!  I didn't attack anyone or anything.  And I wasn't rude posting anywhere in this thread.  Your emoticon and threat was to persuade people not to post to this thread anymore.  If you don't believe that's rude, you have an odd concept of what rude is.

Nothing can improve without people brave enough to stand up and speak.  If you don't have anything to contribute to the discussion except threats, then you shouldn't post in someone's thread.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 6
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.12 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!