LiquidFyre Games Forums
August 16, 2017, 03:43:05 pm *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: Welcome to our new Forums! Please take some time to read the few posts in "The Official Word" category.
 
   Home   Help Arcade Search Login Register GO TO PET DRAGONS GO TO PET DRAGONS 2  
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 19
  Print  
Author Topic: Inflation in Pet Dragons: What do we do?  (Read 34208 times)
masterfool
Global Moderator
Draconic Legend
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4748



View Profile
« on: March 31, 2008, 02:05:25 pm »
0

Note:OK, I know I said I would open up the old thread . . . but it occurred to me that inflation talk was all over the place, and should be centralized.

Preamble
First off, let me state that this thread is a direct result of the discussion that is going on about midway down page 4 in the Cave Upgrades Thread (http://www.petdragonsfbapp.com/forum/index.php?topic=1757.45).

Section A:  Stating the Issue
The issue is inflation.  We have more and more gold coming into this game every day.  And as Chris notes, that amount is increasing exponentially (or nearly so).

What does this mean for us?  It means that things that were difficult or unheard of early in the game are becoming extremely commonplace.  Custom titles are popping up left and right.  Everyone has all the equipment they want, and gold is still accumulating.  Players who, two months ago, were surprised to be able to catch a Numerous Piles dragon now won't leave their cave for less than a TCF, and most look for Full Caves. 

What I propose is that we have a discussion here on what, if anything, should be done about the problem.  But before we do that, we should inform ourselves on the situation.  First, a list of threads where good inflation talk has occurred.

Section B:  Background Information
The Primary Inflation Thread was "Gold Supply Increase and the Shop" : http://www.petdragonsfbapp.com/forum/index.php?topic=957.0

Some Minor ideas in Shati's "Tying Gold to Weight with a Twist" thread, involving cave sizes: http://www.petdragonsfbapp.com/forum/index.php?topic=630.0

Those topics were expanded upon in the "Ougrowing your Cave" thread: http://www.petdragonsfbapp.com/forum/index.php?topic=602.0

And, of course, the above mentioned "Cave Upgrades" thread: http://www.petdragonsfbapp.com/forum/index.php?topic=1757.0

There is other information out there, but it is in a one post here, one post there format.  Most of the ideas that can be found in those posts have translated across to at least one of the above threads.

Section C: Some of the Proposed Ideas

There have been many ideas proposed as to how we can take care of inflation.  I will list some of the more prominent ones here.

(1)  Cap gold digging much like weight gain was capped.  Find a "Soft Cap" where it ceases to increase.  While this may not HALT inflation, it would surely slow it down.

(2)  Price items based on the total gold in the game.  Basically, inflation pricing.

(3)  A subset of (2) would be to price items based on the "Average Gold per Player."  Sounds the same, but it's not quite.

(4)  Create newer, more expensive items for people to buy.

(5)  Have a "Max Gold per Cave" idea, where after a player attains a certain level of wealth, they either must spend gold or turns to expand their cave.

(6)  Do Nothing.  It's fine as it is, and we shouldn't worry about it.

Now, I know (6) isn't exactly a solution, but it is often the most cited argument when we talk about inflation, so I thought it was important to include.

I do NOT think this list is comprehensive .. . . but it gives us a starting point. 

Conclusion
IMO, gold inflation is going to be a problem for this game in the VERY near future.  In fact, I already think it IS a problem.  To that extent, I hope this thread gets the great minds on the forum thinking about possible solutions.

I do not suggest that my list of solutions above is the only ways we can go.  Of course, ideas can be mixed and matched.  We don't need to choose ONE of these, or, for that matter, ANY of these.  Maybe there is something else that can be chosen to counter inflation.

The purpose of this thread, then, will be to have a logical debate on the nature of inflation in Pet Dragons, and what, if anything, we should do about it.
Logged

Nothing Beats a Fool's Luck . . . and I am the Master Fool.
Av
Draconic Legend
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1275


An unpleasant fellow.


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2008, 02:22:02 pm »
0

I'm really glad you decided on the new thread.

As you know, I really like the Soft Cap idea.  Its does not solve it, but I think it is one of a few things that can be done.  Its pretty easy to do, and we don't have to offend anyone by doing it or alienate any one type of player.  Julius mentioned that the cavers might complain that we are ruining their fun, but if we cap it at the current highest CS, or at some mystery point beyond that, then no one is going to be terribly affected, and all the other players will be able to enjoy the same gold collecting growth that the top cavers did to reach the soft cap. This means that gold will still increase, but eventually will stabilize to a manageable rate, assuming we have other things in place to account for how much gold is going in and coming out. 

Until the gold stabilizes I think its going to be hard to price items based on average gold or pricing based on inflation, but thats not say it can't be done.  I think that adding new items will help (and I think they should be added for other reasons discussed elsewhere) but there are price risks.  If its too low, everyone will have them and gold will continue to rise.  If its too high, people will dig for gold and add more gold to the game before they dump some into the items, possibly offsetting the desire to get gold out of the game.  Its going to be tough price the items.  This is doubly difficult because if we add new items, with higher prices, then the other items need to be adjusted to match the curve of prices (I think the prices need to be raised on all items, except maybe the potions).

I'm going to collect my thoughts and comment on the other ideas at a later date.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2008, 02:23:55 pm by Chris and the Twins » Logged

"When he arrived at the gate I couldn't put my finger on it why, but I just didn't like him. His glare, his smirk, his posture; everything about him bothered me."

- Conrad Anders, City Guard


Danasi and Apprentice
Fledgling Caretaker
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 87


The celebrated dragon champion of Lincolnshire


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2008, 02:29:35 pm »
0

The trick will be of course creating a solution which will be appropriate to both the rich old dragons, and new dragons starting with nothing but the scales on their back.
Logged
masterfool
Global Moderator
Draconic Legend
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4748



View Profile
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2008, 02:30:18 pm »
0

Chris,
  I agree completely on the Soft Cap.  It can be quickly and easily implemented, without affecting the game as a whole.

As for raising prices on items, I will only respond to one part for now:  if you raise the price on the Semi-Permanent items, you must raise Potion Prices to match.  They are currently priced so that they are more expensive PER USE than the corresponding Semi-Permanent item. . .. and I think that must be maintained.
Logged

Nothing Beats a Fool's Luck . . . and I am the Master Fool.
Jules & Banphrionsa
Draconic Legend
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 877



View Profile
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2008, 02:34:25 pm »
0

I don't think gold gain should be decreased. We don't want a riot. The cavers want their gold and they should get it. Sure it's rising exponentially, they get richer by the minute, but so do raiders. The way I see it, if the hoarders get more gold, then we all get more gold. More gold means more things to buy. But we've already bought everything there is to buy, so we are left with some extra gold. Gold is good, yes, but also having a goal. A few months ago getting to 500k and buying a custom title wasn't so easy, now everyone has one (or two!). I no longer care for the gold, there's nothing left for me to buy, in order to lower my gold I buy and sell items, and this is a waste of gold. I think new items should get some gold out of the game. I like the idea Bert mentioned in another thread (last week). Getting some sort of herald for your dragon, this of course would be expensive (1 million?). We would all try to buy it, I would love to actually. The ideas of cave upgrades is interesting, provided they quite expensive, the idea is to get gold out.
Logged

Av
Draconic Legend
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1275


An unpleasant fellow.


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2008, 02:42:13 pm »
0

As for raising prices on items, I will only respond to one part for now:  if you raise the price on the Semi-Permanent items, you must raise Potion Prices to match.  They are currently priced so that they are more expensive PER USE than the corresponding Semi-Permanent item. . .. and I think that must be maintained.

The only reason I was thinking that was that if prices go up on the potions, then new players will be at more of a disadvantage at the beginning of the game than ever before.  Now you could argue that they can just raid from all the gold down there, but thats assuming they are aware of it and that they can actually get it.  If Lvl3 items are implemented, it is going to be extremely difficult for new players to raid the gold needed for items.  I think bottom feeding would reach new heights down there if this were the case.

Also, I see what you are saying about potions vs. items in per usage.  BUT, lets consider that Juice is the only one that really gets usage, in fact in every single battle.  The semi-permanent items grant a bonus over time, and while it would be ideal to maintain the cost of potions relative to the others, no one will stop using either of them if the cost difference changes, both will still get used.  And so while it would be cheaper to use the potions than the semis, people are still gonna have the semis, and still have to pay repair costs so maintaining that difference in price will not change how people use the items.  But with cheap potions, new players, or dragons that have reset will have access to some items, that will give them a legitimate chance at getting the other ones.
Logged

"When he arrived at the gate I couldn't put my finger on it why, but I just didn't like him. His glare, his smirk, his posture; everything about him bothered me."

- Conrad Anders, City Guard


Av
Draconic Legend
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1275


An unpleasant fellow.


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2008, 02:49:28 pm »
0

I don't think gold gain should be decreased.

Please keep in mind that we are not talking about decreasing the amount of gold gained.  We are only talking about making it so that gold gain reaches a point where it stabilizes.  So a dragon that makes 250k a day now (which I think the top cavers are) will never gain less than that.  Lets say that that caver has a CS of 900 (I also thing this is about where the top cavers are, maybe towards 1000) and they cap it at 1000.  This means that once the caver reaches that CS, they will not be able to increase the amount gained.  So if at that point they gain 300k per day, they will continue to gain around 300k until the end of time.  They will have lucky days and unlucky days like the rest of us, but they will not keep growing.

This is ideal for two reasons.  The cavers that are ahead will stay ahead, kinda like teh eaters.  Cavers that are behind them will also reach the cap, and not be able to catch up, just like it is now.  This is why I would say that it would not really upset the cavers, it won't change rankings anymore than it does now.  Secondly, it stops the exponential growth that we see today.
Logged

"When he arrived at the gate I couldn't put my finger on it why, but I just didn't like him. His glare, his smirk, his posture; everything about him bothered me."

- Conrad Anders, City Guard


Catgon
Wyrmling Handler
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 49


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2008, 02:58:44 pm »
0

I'm in favor of giving rich dragons something expensive to buy.  That would help by removing some of the gold from the system.  I also like the idea of perhaps having a gold capacity for your cave, requiring us to pay to expand our caves to fit a bigger cache of cash.  I'd be against raising the price of store items, that would make it harder for younger dragons to compete.  I for one just collected and bought some level 1 gear before I actually started attacking.  The tying gold to weight is an idea I think is interesting, although I like the cave size better.  Another idea would be to have expensive items that serve as personal trophies you could purchase in the store.  They would not have to do anything in particuliar but they could show up in your dragon inventory and be stealable.  An accomplishment could then be tied to them, for example

Artifact Holder - Own and keep 5 artifacts
Epic'd Out - Own and keep 20 artifacts
Loot Ninja - Successfully steal 5 artifacts

To make it more interesting they could be available in limited quanitites that randomly show up in the shop from time to time to make them more exclusive.
Logged
Jules & Banphrionsa
Draconic Legend
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 877



View Profile
« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2008, 03:00:24 pm »
0

That's fine by ME. But I'm not a caver. We should really get their opinion. I'm sure they won't want a cap. the idea of collecting points is to get more every day. Maybe the amount of collecting points could me decreased, so their gain steadies a bit, but not capped.
Logged

Dragonais
Draconic Legend
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 673


Handler of the Dragovian Lords.


View Profile
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2008, 03:21:44 pm »
0

I do not mind the idea of a "soft cap" for collection like there is in weight. I would not drastically hurt anyone. You may hear some of the great cavers grip about it, but for the average player/raider it would not hurt them at all.

I am for more items in the shop. I keep hearing about new items to come out but they haven't yet due to time constraints on the Devs. This would be one way to get more gold out of the game. Everyone would want something and have to spend to get it. More equipment would best accomplish this. Just make the prices reasonable so anyone from beginners to advanced players can afford at least something. We have level 1 and level 2 items with the possibility of level 3 items.

Other than that, we should keep an eye out for how much gold is directly being relieved from cavers. If most of the gold is coming from them to start with, then it is distribution amongst the raiders. I would really like to know how many raiders actually put turns into collecting? I put turns into collecting, but are individuals like myself the exception or the norm?

Please do not link gold to weight in terms of raiding. That might seriously jeopardize the chances of young dragons to get some high quality items. I have looked at that thread before, but do not believe that is the best way to go. If you want to consider linking gold to weight, consider it in the form of collecting. I can hear some crying foul already. Just consider it as an option as opposed to raiding.

Logged

Dragonais is asking his friends to check out his profile for information on young dragon that he does not need help assisting for.

Unofficial Weight Size, Gold/Treasure Class & Battle Percentage Thread
Av
Draconic Legend
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1275


An unpleasant fellow.


View Profile
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2008, 03:37:05 pm »
0

I had an item idea that combines the Hall of Fame idea with the interest in finding ways to spend money on our dragons to increase prestige and that could be justifiably expensive enough while being appealing enough to have people spend gold on it.

It can be found here: http://www.petdragonsfbapp.com/forum/index.php?topic=1788.0
Logged

"When he arrived at the gate I couldn't put my finger on it why, but I just didn't like him. His glare, his smirk, his posture; everything about him bothered me."

- Conrad Anders, City Guard


Smauglet and Trinity
Global Moderator
Draconic Legend
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 963



View Profile
« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2008, 03:37:22 pm »
0

I think we need more expensive useless items along the lines of custom titles, for taking gold out of the game.  I know some buy multiple titles just to get rid of the money but I couldn't bring myself to do that.  If there was a 1 million or 2 million herald or second line custom title to buy I would certainly want to have it - as it is I have run out of things to buy and it is not economically viable for me to attack anything lower than a full cave.   The sensible thing for my dragon to do is to become a hoarder, collect rather than grow, and hardly ever leave the cave.  This does not make for exciting gameplay and I would like to see some stuff that would dissuade me, and the many other dragons in a similar situation, from following that course.
Logged

Pete
Draconic Legend
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 643


View Profile
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2008, 03:40:52 pm »
0

Remember - whatever we come up with needs to stabilise the game in the long term. The facebook game is mature now. We all know how it works. Think 2 years down the line. We want a challenging game still. "Buying some more stuff" isn't going to deal with that. In need, if the devs suddenly spot us all having Literal Mountains and kind of have to do something about it, there's always devaluation of the gold categories and price hikes in the shop. People would keep their gold but a TCF could be a million etc.

Inflation was one of the reasons I put gambling into the equation on the duels thread. The bank skims 10% and we keep inflation down.

I think we're going to need a soft cap - eventually Gaz will be collecting a Literal Mountain every day. And it's not as simple as doing something to stop the top 100 from getting 50 million gold each - which will happen very soon if left unchecked. Or making it easier for the rest of us to get it from them by keeping them out of the cave artificially so the gold can be raided. That'll simply end up with the top 1000 having 5 million each instead.

One of the things that's been quite interesting is the "crikey I can't deal with this any more" point that non-caving raiders have hit when crossing the gold boundary into whatever's "the new TCF". The almost tangible relief that the incomings tail off when you drop back a gold rank... that's a feeling we want to keep I think.

I also think we should view this thread as an important piece of work - I've been waiting for it to appear...

Put down the things we WANT and the things we DON'T WANT. This is called a "requirements capture" in the software industry. A solution may well become clear later. We don't need a solution today. And actually, WE DON'T HAVE TO FIND A SOLUTION. The devs do (if they want to). Once we know what we want, then if the devs intend to do anything about it, they'll be able to add their own twist while they're thinking about it.
Logged
lady sophira
Wyrm Trainer
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 198


PROUD HANDLER OF BOTH LADY SOPHIRAS


View Profile
« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2008, 03:45:08 pm »
0

That's fine by ME. But I'm not a caver. We should really get their opinion. I'm sure they won't want a cap. the idea of collecting points is to get more every day. Maybe the amount of collecting points could me decreased, so their gain steadies a bit, but not capped.

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
Logged

violet
Draconic Legend
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 577


Sean... more popular than you


View Profile
« Reply #14 on: March 31, 2008, 03:47:24 pm »
0

I think a cap on collecting is a good idea.  I think the cavers will be upset, but to be fair they need to be capped too since both weight and fs are capped.  The soft cap on weight has not stopped the fattest dragons in the game form continuing to eat so I don't see a collecting cap stopping cavers from their daily digging
Logged

If I am nobody and nobody is perfect does that mean that I am perfect?  Yes, it does.

Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 19
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.12 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!